The Man in the Gutter - Dimitris Zach (Deadhead Comics, 2018)
"Have you ever felt stuck somewhere in between? In between the route from your flat to work and vice versa? In between your desire to create and destroy? In between comedy and drama? In between the gutter? and if yes, what did you do?..." Well, I'll tell you what I did; I decided to go and find out a little bit more about one of the indie comic scene's brightest rising talents.
I was already thoroughly impressed with this comic the first time I saw it and it just gets better with each subsequent reading, a bit like every time you rewatch Withnail and I. The title may or may not have been taken from the song lyrics of "Disparity By Design" by hardcore Chicago band, Rise Against. It probably was, but even if it wasn't, it should have been: |
| "Man", "in between", "gutter"... get it? |
"If we just took a step back, a bigger picture we might view, perhaps the man in the gutter is not so different from you."Not only does this line work as a general concept for the story, but the more alert among you may have noted that the term "gutter" also refers to the white void between panels. Indeed, this creator gets right "in between" the fabric of comics, and their language, by attacking the space in and around the fourth wall, bringing the audience, the author, and the character(s) together into one single dimension, and where no-one is safe!
Every Story Tells a Picture
Dimitris Zach has a clearly distinctive illustrative technique and attractive cartoon style that would not look out of place in an expensive alternative comicart anthology. You could imagine seeing his work signed up to the Fantagraphics label, or to a European undergrind publisher, yet it also has something unmistakably British about it too.
There's a grotesque element to his art that recalls Peter Bagge's earlier work, a surreal impact to his forms that is reminiscent of Hunt Emerson, and a chiaroscuro treatment that resembles that of José Muñoz. Indeed, Dimitris' heavy inking really gives this book a distinguished noir feel, as if you are watching something terribly uncomfortable unfolding before your very eyes, and is all the more effective alongside the burlesque nature and content of his panel art.
There is also a great flow to his panels; so good in fact, that your eyes almost travel across the page too quickly and easily. Once you force yourself to slow your visual/mind coordination right down (or by simply rereading the book carefully), you will begin to notice a wealth of experimental techniques. No two layouts are the same; there is something new to behold on every page, and the fact that it doesn't hit you right away means that it works just perfectly.
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| ...No problem, just get to the end and read through the comic again carefully. |
There's various levels of high meta concept within the narrative, although the story itself also plays out straight well enough ...at least to begin with anyhow. The father/son apologue that runs inherently throughout the comic will be something that most people (possibly even the artist himself) may relate to. Upon subsequent consideration however, it becomes increasingly apparent that the roles are not as clear cut as they may seem, and that this notion is in fact more likely a metaphor for the relationship between the creator and his creation.
Furthermore, the references to God suggest that the allegory could be extended beyond mere artistic propinquity, and serve therefore as a commentary on the existentialist perception of the human condition. Naturally, one immediately draws parallels with the philosophical doctrines of Nietzsche and, therefore to some extent, Schopenhauer. However, moving back into a strictly artistic context, I am reminded of Lawrence Gowing's Painter and Apple from 1983. In this piece, the British painter/critic imagines his still life talking back to him, with the result that it is not satisfied with his efforts.
"Imagine! I waited here confident in the knowledge of my luminous perfection. But where your eyes should have raped me, they did me justice."
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| Oh well, back to the old drawing board then. |
So that's enough from me anyway, let's move on to the real reason why you are here: to read something, in his own words, about a greatly talented storyteller and artist that is surely destined for greater things.
Hello Dimitris and thank you for taking the time to answer these few questions. Tell us a little bit about yourself, and what made you decide you wanted to get into making your own comics.
Hello Mauro! First of all I would like to thank you for showing interest in my work, getting in touch for this interview and spending your spare time promoting the indie scene! (I know you say you started the blog for selfish reasons, but hey... every single one who reads this knows how it feels being trapped in the love for comics).
Ok! Let’s see how this goes... I am 27 and the last 3 years of my life have been spent in Edinburgh since I moved there to avoid the Mediterranean unemployment and to try and join the Illustration Department of ECA (Edinburgh College of Arts), another story of inevitable rejection. But still here, one of the southern-blooded creatures of this city... and when I say south, I mean deep south! (everyone from the south knows what I mean).
I was born and raised in a place called Amaliada, located somewhere in the Peloponnese, close to Porto Patrasso which connects Greece and Italy, and is also the starting point of the boat to the Everyday Friday island for the British (Zante). A place that still has a different square for immigrant workers and incidents like dragging them behind tractors for reasons like stealing chickens from a back garden, or when the unions are protesting for better working (or more like, life) conditions. Farmers come out with rifles while spraying their teeth silver and screaming "what a day, what a lovely day".
Childhood, sweet sixteen and a jump into adulthood defined by diarrhoea (literally), unemployment or unpaid blue collar jobs because...Greece, whatsoever, more boring stuff... oh! and this stupid mandatory 9-month army training (psychotic depression! Rendered incapable to complete the training! Wooo-hooo!) and some anger issues coming out as scribbles, or as Freud described it "the mirror of the subconscious" right before he screamed something about my mother’s vagina... so fuck it! There must be a better way of psychoanalysis.
It was about 5 years ago when I met the person who would become my personal Mr. Miyagi: a 60 year-old cranky cartoonist answering to the name of Andreas Angelopoulos, who refuses to publish any of his work and the only trace of him you can find is in some forgotten 'zines that some of his students might have published. I knew he was teaching comics for a living but for me it was a period of crashing on friends' couches... I asked him if he could have a look into my first attempts at comics, and he said nothing about my work, he just asked if I would be interested to start. I replied yes, but I had no money so I offered cleaning his studio in exchange. I thought he would appreciate it... Now I think he just felt sad for my fawn... He told me to go back after a few weeks and bring some new work, so I did. We started meeting in his studio with a few more people for 4 hours a day, all of us from different backgrounds and with different perspectives: some liked manga, others superheroes, and most of them preparing their portfolios for studying abroad... I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do, to be honest. After a few months, while I was trying to understand what "sketch in basic shapes" meant, Andreas passed next to me and with a sardonic smile just left me a book of Robert Crumb... That was the moment in which everything started, in the most obscene and surreal way, to make sense. For the first 2 years we kept meeting daily for 4 hours, the last 3 we have been skyping once a week.
PS: I never cleaned the studio.
PPS: His son became one of my best friends.
I've noticed that you also produce a number of illustrations, posters, etc. Does this tie in with your regular employment, or are you operating in your spare time, for the moment?...
"Kid... comics will break your heart,’’ as my parents said many times quoting Kirby to me without even knowing it. In the last two years I had some paid projects: for storyboards, a board game, a few t-shirt designs and illustrations... But no, my regular employment were jobs that you qualified enough for if you have a pair of legs, arms and being relatively healthy enough to move fast. At the time, I am cleaning toilets, making beds at a hostel and the rest of the time I do comics. As you can imagine that means time for nothing else... In order to avoid isolation and keep in touch with stuff I like to support, I started producing these illustrations for DIY bands, 'zines, self-organised spaces/festivals, etc...
I'm aware of the fact that you are a big fan of European comics, and I know from speaking to you before that you have been inspired by the work of Italian cartoonist Zerocalcare. Have there been any other particular influences on your style and technique that you'd like to mention?
Yeap! I discovered Calcare recently from a translated part of his work Kobane Calling and then I forced my partner to translate some stories from his blog for me that are only published in Italian. I was impressed by his observations and ability to connect social issues with pop culture and vice versa.
My very first big influences were the American underground cartoonists, something you could totally see in my earlier works, like the Posthumous Experience of an Atheist and a few other 'zine works... Then I started getting impressed by the work of the Europeans, like Paul Grist or Bruno (Tyler Cross), that I used as references for The Man in the Gutter and illustrations mainly published in a collective magazine, at the time called 99 Percent Invisible.
I don’t feel the drawing style of The Man in the Gutter is quite what I am trying to do though and for sure there are loads of things I still have to improve dramatically in every aspect of the process of making comics... so literally I just grab everything coming my way, from the perfect dialogues and characters of Daniel Clowes to the wide beautiful panels of Europeans and the impetuosity of 'zines. For my new projects I am trying to be focused on a more cartoony view of the European comics like Franquin, Philippe Foerster, Emmanuel Larcenet, Topolino cartoonists, Jacovitti, etc... And of course I am always peeking out on works of Greek, underground and indie cartoonists!
So what other comics have you been brought up on, and what are you reading these days?
Unfortunately I wasn’t a comic book guy from a young age and I am really jealous when listening about other cartoonists saying that they were into it from day one, copying characters, making stories and stuff. For sure I had some translated European titles like Asterix, Topolino, Lucky Luke, etc. but my memories as a child are more like my father singing guerilla songs to me or, when I was a bit older, showing me his Karl Marx books and trying to make me read them (of course I never read those bricks and I don't think that he has either. I think he just bought them as the cheapest encyclopedia collection from a random door-to-door salesman. God bless the Lumpenproletariat).
In the last few years I have been trying to read a bit more thematically, depending on the project I am working on, as research! This is my phase of trying to understand how comedy works, from social commentary to silly cartoon gags and fart jokes (still the funniest). And because I take comedy as my coffee... I am reading comics like Ordinary Victories by Emmanuel Larcenet, Schizo by Ivan Brunetti, Arsenic Lullaby by Douglas Paszkiewicz, and then I have as a bible The Anthology of Black Humour: 45 writers referencing and analysing movies, books, plays and everything else that has to do with the genre.
As well as being a big fan of your art, I feel you are also a very skilled writer. What part of the comic producing process do you enjoy the most, and which part do you enjoy the least?
Thank you very much for your words Mauro and I am really happy you‘re saying that publicly! Now I can brag about having my first fan. Heh! The birth of an idea is what fascinates me the most and I get really excited about it... although the idea is just the first step of making a story and the excitement doesn't really help.
One of my most common mistakes is that I don’t have a clear premise of this idea, as a result I have holes in the story, not being able to create strong characters, because they have no purpose, and a general chaos in my mind of how to transform this idea into a script... It’s difficult for me so that makes it the least enjoyable part of comics, although I think I am overcoming it, with Mr. Miyagi’s "uuuup... doooown...", painting the fence techniques of developing a script. Long conversations are a big help too with a really good friend and writer, as well as editor on The Man in the Gutter, Spyros V. and with loads of research and reading, I have started feeling more comfortable with it (I don’t know if it’s a good or a bad sign that the dialogues of my characters are now playing in my mind constantly).
As you can understand, sketching comes at the end and, let's face it, I have not a natural talent. I am doing black and white, that is not really the most attractive thing for a big audience and anyway, there are soooo many good hands out there now that I cannot ever reach half of their level. So my goal is a relatively Ok drawing style with a good story! (I love sketching though mainly because it gives me time to listen to some comedy and podcasts).
PS: All the above is a criticism on my approach into the process of comics, which I find interesting to talk about, then there is lettering...
How did you come up with the idea for The Man in the Gutter, and the concept of "being stuck somewhere in between"? Although you were careful to distance yourself from the main character, is there anything of yourself, personal experiences, or observations within the story?
I think it was when I realised that I would like to play a bit more with the language of comics and the possibilities it gives you. So I came up with the idea of a repressed autobiographical comic type character who wants to become a mainstream superhero. Then the idea of him being stuck in the gutters of a comic page just jumped out and the development of this idea brought me to the general conclusion that most of us are stuck somewhere in between... As I told you before, I get excited easily so I started developing the script without having quite clear in my mind where I was going.
In order to fill some holes, I started referencing ideas from a book called Thus Spoke Zarathustra by Friedrich Nietzsche, in which he was explaining the process of becoming a superhero, kill your God, reborn as a child and recreate your values or end up a nihilist. (at least that’s what I understood). Anyway... the good thing is that I had made the same mistake already many times, so I knew how to manage it a bit better and not drown another story in my "never published" box.
Distancing myself from the main character wasn’t an intentional action. If I could have been closer to him probably it would have been a better comic and the audience would be able to empathise more... That is something I am trying to improve in future projects. It happened mainly because of inexperience and I also was more focused on just telling the story! I haven’t read the comic since I published it and I was about to do before answering the last part of your question: if there is something personal in there... I have never thought about it and I don’t really want to know. I hope not!
I also happen to know that you are about to launch a blog of short stories. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with there, so why don't you tell us a little bit more about this project too.
It’s a project called Rough Time Comics, a series of autobiographical comics! And... I am gonna stop you here so don’t get me wrong, I know autobiographical comics can be boring, especially from a person like me, that has no strong opinions or ideology for a stable critic on any issue, or an interesting life, but I can promise one thing: there is no narrator telling you what to see and feel, no close ups full of dialogues and hell no, there is not even one cat in there. (I can’t draw cats anyway!) It's more like an opportunity to put some thoughts on paper, try to understand them and just share them with people around.
Every story is based on real life experiences of mine, or of a friend of mine, with people I know or that I have met, or just seen on the street (and other loads of boring stuff that no one finds interesting except for me...) transformed into the world and language of comics. That mainly means that the one and only natural law of this world is surrealism and it is completely normal to find that The Teletubbies are your neighbours, your Uber driver is the guy from Back to the Future, or that your friends can literally jump from their panel to yours, ruining your life while you are being awkward trying to hit on someone. You have hypergalactic travels because this hippie you met at the park wants to win this stupid argument about afterlife; thoughts on neoliberalism, political correctness, this new trend of finding pleasure victimising ourselves, or being offended even by the air we breath. There are way more ideas recorded on my phone while on a break from mopping the floor of the hostel’s toilet and my colleagues will hear something like "if the conspiracy theorists are right and we do live in a predetermined Orwellian nightmare, controlled by the Illuminati or whatever, then for sure people like Trump and Milo are their stand-up comedians".
Do you have any plans to produce further comics in the near future (please say yes!), or anything else in the pipeline that you'd like to talk about?
I count the blog as comics in the near future... and that's mainly because every story that is online will be available on paper too... The idea is printing some issues of each episode and just leaving them around as free range comics, so everyone can find and read. The note on it will suggest to just pass it to someone else when you are done reading.
The distribution will surely take place in 2 cities in the UK: Edinburgh, from the always supportive Deadhead Comics, and Manchester, by two very good friends and 'zine makers Frixos & Elli. Also in a few cities in Greece; Soul Traits magazine, E.T.K and Manos Ganas will distribute for me and then friends who just love me and respond positively to any stupid idea I have will help too. I hope to be able to do it in more countries and cities in the future... but well... first things first!
Other than that, there is still a truck full of ideas, mainly plans of collaborations with friends, on poster series, comic strips, 'zines, t-shirts, and there is also a screen-printing toy project we are trying to plan called The Land in the Land!, so hopefully I will not die soon (today Steve Ditko died at the age of 90. Fucking hell, when I meant not soon I was thinking more like 60!)
NB: I am sorry if my answers were too long already but before I finish, please allow me to shout out some people who have supported me, or supporting the DIY culture with their work:
Soul Traits, a collective magazine of independent artists around Europe. (@soul.traits)
Ekdoseis tou Kampou and Melandros Gana who is collecting the greek undergrounds and indie elite of cartoonist through his small press publications. (@ekdoseistoukampou)
Winterview magazine based on DIY culture, with interviews on bands, record labels, fanzines and way more. (https://winterviewpunk.wordpress.com)
Of course the guys from The Awesome Comics Podcast and the amazing support to every indie comic artist and cartoonist. (https://awesomecomics.podbean.com)
Lulu AKA Always.Sidekicks.Drive, an amazing Greek illustrator and comic artist. (@always.sidekicks.drive)
Bands like Kafka, Dirty Wombs and Chain Cult (if you are into punky mode) who are just running around, organising gigs, recording stuff and being supportive in general and many others that deserve to be mentioned and slipped my mind but I am sure you will find at some point.
Thanks again for taking part in this, it's going to be great! Seeing as The Man in the Gutter is currently on sale, I guess I will need to be careful about what images I should include. Please do let me know if there are any specific panels you'd like me to use. I was thinking about 3 or 4 should do it, just to illustrate the article.
Please feel free to use any images you like and also a link so everyone can download a full PDF of it! Nothing will change in my life if 20 more people buy it... and also, I hope everyone who reads it will want to support anyway, if not buying the actual book, at least contacting me for some feedback, trade our comics or start reading the blog.
Count it as a present for the beginning of your blog, the approach you have and the space you gave me in it! I hope you enjoyed it as I do! I gave my best to keep it interesting and be as honest as possible. Thanks once again and you have my full attention in your future work!
Thank you very much Dimitris, that is very kind of you indeed and I am certain that anyone reading this will not be able to wait to download a copy. Thank you once again for a very generous gesture. (Links provided at the bottom of the page).
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| Behold, I teach you the Superman: he is that lightning, he is that madness! |
I hope you all found the interview as interesting as I did, and I trust you will have enjoyed learning about this talented comic creator who has proved himself to be a modest, openly honest, considerate, intelligent and deep-thinking individual, as well as an all-round nice guy. I think Dimitris is a little too severe on himself in some areas, although I do sense a deep desire to constantly hone his craft, and to work hard on areas that require more attention... even if they are apparent no-one else but himself.
I've purposefully held back a little from piling on too many plaudits, because he is after all a young and relatively inexperienced comic creator. However, Dimitris has the world at his feet and I am certain that if he just carries on what he is doing, he will become a superhero too.
I shall personally look forward to tracking the career of Dimitris Zach, and am eagerly anticipating his next works. I've already seen a glimpse of another upcoming project centred around the concept of discarded ideas for comics, and feel that this will prove to be another cracker. To his credit, it is shaping up very much in a similar style to The Man in the Gutter, which you can download in all its glory right here.
Thanks once again to Dimitris for making the digital copy available to one and all. Please consider purchasing the hard copy too. I'm sure it will make a desirable addition to any small press collection and, if everything goes to plan, may even increase in value one day...
You can also catch up with Dimitris Zach, see what he's up to (you'll be glad you did!), and get in touch with him on his Instagram account here.
All visual content is for demonstrative purposes only and is the property of the respective owners.
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